Cinnaminson Fire Department in Need of Two New Trucks

A referendum vote will be held later this month.

The Cinnaminson Fire Department is in need of two new trucks and will ask voters to approve a referendum later this month that would update the department’s fleet.

Fire Chief William Kramer said two of the fire district’s trucks—a pumper and a rescue pumper—are nearly 20 years old and it’s time for new vehicles.

The purchase of the two vehicles will not increase the fire tax for taxpayers here.

Both vehicles are models from 1994 and have been costing the department several thousand a year in repair costs and hundreds of hours in offline time, Kramer added.

“Both have exceeded their life expectancies,” Kramer said.

The district plans ahead for apparatus replacement, Kramer said, and is now debt-free. The payments for the new trucks would be stretched out over the next 15 years.

The pumper truck needed is “the bread and butter” fire truck, Kramer said. It carries 750 gallons of water, fire hose and equipment for firefighters to work inside burning buildings.

The rescue pumper operates as a rescue company and has specialized equipment for entrapment incidents.

The life expectancy of the two potential vehicles is between 18 to 20 years, Kramer said.

The fire department has $400,000 toward the purchase of the two vehicles that will cost a total of $1.2 million over a six-year payment plan.

There are four major pieces of apparatus between the department’s two stations—two pumper trucks, one rescue pumper and one ladder company. If the referendum is approved, the department will call on a private company for help with bid specifications. Once bids are received, Kramer said, they will be analyzed and the lowest bidder will be chosen.

Before a contract is awarded, the plan must go before the state’s local finance board for review and a final decision.

Once the contract is issued, the apparatuses will be delivered after about nine months, the chief said.

“We’d be looking toward the end of the year before we actually see delivery,” Kramer said.

Kramer will hold a 45-minute presentation tonight at the township community center to talk about the department, its needs and the upcoming referendum.

Residents can ask questions to the chief. It will be held at 7 p.m. and everyone is invited. The referendum vote is at the community center from 2 to 9 p.m. on Saturday, Oct. 27.

The Cinnaminson Fire Department runs out of two stations—one on Cinnaminson Avenue and one on Taylors Lane. There are 14 career staff members and about 45 active volunteers. The fire department responds to about 1,300 to 1,400 calls a year and to date, are well over 1,000 already, Kramer said.

FbS October 20, 2012 at 01:19 AM
I don't understand why anyone would even counter any responses Eric(ric) has to say. EVERY response is a negative one. I'm sure by now everyone knows you're nothing but a negative, unhappy person. I sure hope if you ever need a fire truck or ANY of the excellent services our town affords us, that they will be more positive about getting there and helping you then you are about them..
Ric October 20, 2012 at 03:47 PM
Oh Frankie, you hurt my feelings. After all, when you said you were so excited because we were getting a new 7-11 I agreed with you. That was positive. Remember I said we would be the envy of Moorestown and Cherry Hill! Oh Frank, I am so sad. I really enjoy your Port Richmond type of logic. When Christina wrote the story - Fuel Costs Minimal for King's Car, Officials Say - I was the first to say that was outright wrong and I detailed the costs they were ignoring. I got jumped all over but time proved me right, thank you. So Frank, to quote Rhett Butler “I don’t give a damn” who I anger questioning costs – that includes the elected township officials and township employees who post at Patch. Listen, since you worship elected officials in Cinnaminson but all I want is to see them live up to their pledge of being “Fiscally Conservative”, how about you pay my $7,500 real estate taxes or at least the $450 fire district portion? If you did that, I would think you are wonderful. Until then I am going to continue that our elected township officials really behave like fiscal conservatives. What happened at the CSA is not the exception. You really hurt my feelings,
Ric October 20, 2012 at 04:32 PM
LOL! Thank god nobody evers drops a new engine into a 20 year old car or truck. Naw. Never happens. Whatever. Do you even know how to put a key into an ignition?
William Kramer October 20, 2012 at 06:08 PM
Ric. It is the uneducated personal attacks such as yours that have led to elected and appointed officials not commenting on this forum. I however refuse to allow you to attack me without a response. We have a very difficult job balancing the needs of the department to provide service against the cost to the taxpayer. You accused me of "not caring". If I did not care: I would not continue to be a volunteer after serving you and Cinnaminson for 40 years, I would not have worked with the Board of Fire Commissioners over the past 4 years, which coincides with my appointment as the "volunteer" fire chief, to maintain a zero tax increase budget. By the way I never said that the fire tax would increase next year as you state in one of your posts, I would not have guided the department in the successful receipt of over $350,000 in federal grants to replace equipment that would have had to be replaced through the fire tax, I would not have provided a presentation explaining the need to replace the apparatus to township committee which has been televised at least three times in the past month, spoke to numerous community groups and held a public presentation last week, I would not have invited you and anyone else to call me directly with questions. But no I don't care. When you can match that type of commitment to this community then, and only then, can you question my commitment to the residents and taxpayers of Cinnaminson.
Ric October 20, 2012 at 06:23 PM
Why not prove me wrong by actually discussing the cost of alternatives? Are you telling me that if this referendum is defeated you have no backup plan? You have not put together a less costly alternative in case the voters say the referendum is too much? Please stop the deflections and discuss cost. Don’t you think Cinnaminson taxpayers have a right to know? I would much rather that Chief, then your deflecting the questions raised, by your responding by never-ending bravado about yourself.
FbS October 20, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Id hate to be married to Eric. He must be a joy to be around on a day to day basis. LOL
Ric October 20, 2012 at 11:07 PM
Sweet Jesus, Frankie, will you get out of my personal life and stick to the topics being discussed? I have absolutely no desire to marry you or any other man. But I respect your right to a same sex marriage.
Mike October 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Making friends again huh Ric lol
John October 21, 2012 at 06:02 PM
Oh boy where are they built in CHINA, 9 months, this is great.....lets wait till we do not have anything...
John October 21, 2012 at 06:06 PM
@Dan, we can always go back to the horse and buggy day with the pumpers than by hand....how is that idea.....does that put a burr on your saddle
John October 21, 2012 at 06:09 PM
@Maury, if U believe that one I have a bridge to sell U in the glades....everything comes from a budget, or do U have a money tree that U can give us
carl October 22, 2012 at 04:10 AM
While I have not decided one way or the other on this yet, I will say there have been some valid points made, now I'm not saying I completely agree with Ric I will say he is asking some good questions, I have a few also, such as what is the current mileage on these trucks? and the hour meters? someone mentioned that you would not put a new engine in a 20 year old car, in most cases no however these are not $20-50k cars they are $450-$600(k) fire trucks take the time to think do you guys think that trucking companies or drivers buy new rigs every 10-20 years? no they sure don't these engines are overhauled many many times during their life, and trucking companies well their trucks see way more highway (mileage) and abuse than fire trucks driven for the most part around town. The rigs driven on American highways have over and up to 600,000 plus miles on them go ask a trucker if you don't think so, and as I mentioned they get more abuse driving thousands of miles weekly.
carl October 22, 2012 at 04:23 AM
The one thing Bill said I found strange "shows significant engine wear based on engine oil analysis" I would like for them to show us these results and which company performed the "oil analysis" because I haven't had the chance to see such a thing in my 25 plus years of automotive repair, most oil tests we have sent out are to determine oil quality, type, condition things like that, if someone is saying that they sampled oil and determined internal engine damage without performing oil pressure test's fuel samples (they are diesel motors) and visual inspections of the internal components then I would question their methods, taking an "oil analysis" should not be condemning a big diesel engine so please show us the results and the company that did them so we can let the township maybe recoup money spent on such a ridiculous test and result, also if the motors do need work, tell us when were they last overhauled? these engines can be overhauled at a price thats is pretty cost effective considering prices of a new truck. What condition are the bodies in? given they are for the most part kept inside I would think the bodies are ok, low mileage decent body and engines that can easily be overhauled would just leave the inner workings of the pumping system and valves and gauges (which can get expensive) but will it cost over $100(k)?
J0714 October 22, 2012 at 09:38 PM
@Ric you sound like a pompous jerk. I'm sure most can agree that you are annoying in every single post on this page. You are just one of those people who must argue anything someone says. Do everyone a favor and move to another town so you can stop criticizing everything that had to do with this town. Thanks
Mark October 22, 2012 at 11:49 PM
Ric, you truly are a JACK*&S!!! And if you ever had the nerve to step from behind Patches blog pages and attend a meeting or any public forum, I would tell you the same thing. That being said, I will commend you for you apparently are the only taxpayer in the entire country who has had significant tax increases over the past 10 to 20 years. You can be a Democrat or a Republican, it makes no difference, they are all politicians and they ALL want our money, and they will ALL raise our taxes and blame the other party for it. Read your history, it has been this way for hundreds of years. I would respectfully suggest to you Ric that if you are so un-happy with the way this town is ran there are many other towns in this state and country that are far worse than Cinnaminson is. If you want cheap taxes, go to a place such as Camden City. Yes, you will pay little to no taxes, but take a look at that place, it is the epitome of "you get what you pay for", and whether you know it or not, as you complain and question to death two fire trucks in you town that you and I will pay for, you have been supporting Camden and have bought several new fire trucks and specialty pieces of fire apparatus for that city via your state taxes for the last 20 plus years. Now I ask you Ric, who do we blame for that? Would it be the fiscally conservative Republican state government or the liberal “let's give everyone everything for free” Democrat state government?
cinnagirl October 23, 2012 at 12:45 AM
ric, do you ever shut up???? your comments as you know are always so negative take your negativity elsewhere. you are so annoying
Ric October 23, 2012 at 01:01 AM
@Cinnagirl. Oh look! Another message from a township employee under a brand new name at patch! Well at least this one is not on the township's time!
JustALocalGuy October 24, 2012 at 01:31 AM
The fire department is a huge help to the EMTs who respond for your neighbors' medical emergencies. The "EMS Engine" can often get to the scene very quickly with Firefighter EMTs on board who can initiate patient assessment and care. The FD also helps EMTs with lifting 'heavier' patients. Of course, Fire and EMS work together on the many MVAs on RT 130, the most dangerous road in NJ. If you read the fire call reports that are posted here on patch, you will note that the FD does in fact respond to lots of medical emergencies. This is a good thing. The people of Cinnaminson are receiving good emergency care and should be grateful for all the FD does. I would suggest learning about how Fire and EMS work together before passing judgment on the job they perform.
JustALocalGuy October 24, 2012 at 01:41 AM
Hear, hear, Chief Kramer! I, for one, am glad you took the time to respond to Ric's relentless and baseless attacks. He is just an ignoramus and a coward who would never dare to say to you in person what he says here.
JustALocalGuy October 24, 2012 at 01:46 AM
Engine oil analysis has been in use since the '40s. By detecting levels of metal in the oil, you can have some facts about the level of wear in the engine. It's not exactly rocket surgery. Stop looking for bizarro conspiracies where none exist.
Ric October 24, 2012 at 02:29 AM
@Justaguy. Rest assured no one is passing judgment on the job performance by the fire dept. and EMTs. We all, including me, acknowledge their very good work. Our fire dept. and police dept. do fine work. The focus is on $1.2 million and not job performance. Simply put: instead of buying new fire trucks are there alternatives? I do not understand why we cannot get a straight answer. It would be real nice change if the fire chief would discuss alternatives to purchasing the new fire trucks. I appreciate his reminders about the dedication of the fire dept. but I rather he focus on spending tax money for a moment. Or maybe one of the other fine people associated with the fire department could discuss alternatives. Surely the fire department has given thought to their alternatives if the measure is voted down. Honestly. Taxes have almost tripled since 2003. The average homeowner pays $7500 a year – of that $4800 goes to the school district and $450 to the fire district. It is almost too much for home owners. I do not think it is a put down of the fine work by the fire department and EMTs for asking for information about spending tax money. I certainly hope it isn’t.
JustALocalGuy October 24, 2012 at 03:18 PM
Ric, if you would stop ranting long enough to actually read what people are writing, your responses might make more sense. Christine here seems to be complaining that the FD is responding when her neighbor "needs the ambulance only". This assumes the Christine has any clue about what her neighbor actually needs, or why it is the FD responds to medical emergencies. I explained that so that everyone here can understand. Do you get it now?
Ric October 24, 2012 at 03:55 PM
@Justaguy. Why do you and others associated with the fire dept. find wanting more information about spending $1.2 as offensive? What is going on? I have politely asked these questions and so has Carl. So instead of offensively attacking me personally, why don’t you cool down and you or someone from the fire dept. answer the questions? Just as a reminder, we all agree the fire dept., the EMTs, and the police dept. do good work. So why is wanting more information before voting on $1.2 million for fire trucks offending the fire dept.? After all that is approximately $300 per house in Cinnaminson.
Ric October 24, 2012 at 04:02 PM
@Justaguy. Why do you and others associated with the fire dept. find wanting more information about spending $1.2 as offensive? What is going on? I have politely asked these questions and so has Carl. So instead of offensively attacking me personally, why don’t you cool down and you or someone from the fire dept. answer the questions? Just as a reminder, we all agree the fire dept., the EMTs, and the police dept. do good work. So why is wanting more information before voting on $1.2 million for fire trucks offending the fire dept.? After all that is approximately $300 per house in Cinnaminson.
FbS October 24, 2012 at 04:52 PM
I know we (my family)will all be voting YES Saturday :)
JustALocalGuy October 24, 2012 at 05:10 PM
Ric, you aren't reading what's been written, and you are responding to things that haven't been said. This is a recurring theme for you. I'm not offended by the request for more information at all. You are completely mischaracterizing what I and others have said. You haven't been polite at all, and now you're saying I'm attacking you personally? That's pretty rich. The simple fact is that you're responding to things that haven't been written, and the responses make no sense as a result of that. Again, if you care to address what's actually been said, your responses might make more sense. Chief Kramer addressed your "questions" with more polity than they deserved. I would suggest that if you want to get anywhere with this, you go to the public meetings.
carl October 25, 2012 at 05:04 AM
REALLY an oil analysis used since the 40's by detecting levels of metal REALLY? you surely must be kidding? rocket surgery? man you haven't a clue a visual inspection will detect metal in oil nobody and i mean nobody in the 40's was telling people to have such a thing done unless it was snake oil, stick to something you know about because you don't know this subject very well AT ALL, you see ANY trained professional does not have oil checked for engine condition or wear NONE that is used to check oil quality or condition, a qualified technician would be checking engine condition mechanically, and as stated engine overhauls are a normal procedure for these heavy diesel engines, all I was asking was a few questions there is no need for you to be rude with your comments, especially since you apparently have NO knowledge in the field which is obvious with you comments, do yourself a favor on matters you are not skilled on please don't pretend it makes you look foolish. There is a Cummins facility right over in Bristol maybe they will let you tour the place and help teach you the basic's and fundamentals of diesel engine's and basic repair and diagnosis
carl October 25, 2012 at 05:23 AM
By the way I didn't want to say this but after reading your comment I will say the other day while drinking our morning coffee at the 30 bay repair facility that I have worked at for over 20 years I brought up the comment that my township had an "oil analysis" done on their trucks and was told they had engine wear the technicians all got a good laugh out of it, see we do send oil out to be analyzed (they have special containers they send us just for that purpose) we use it to make sure the correct oil is being used in the engines otherwise our warranty claims are denied by the manufacturer, and I'm sure you know this but it can be normal for small metal flakes to be in the oil that's what the normal purpose of oil is for... Lubricate moving parts.
FbS October 28, 2012 at 12:45 PM
The Fire trucks were approved!! Thanks for voting everyone !!
John December 23, 2012 at 06:04 PM
@Mark, U said our taxes will not go up, oh yea, do U live in a bubble...Oh thats right our taxes will not go up just the assessed value of our homes valued at ha ha market prices.....as of right now the market value of our homes is over assessed by 35,000 so how do U figure this, oh thats right the new math....just like the NEW CHARGER.....


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